The Pagosa Springs Area Tourism Board held a regular meeting on Wednesday, July 2, during which the board heard updates from Blue Room Research on market trends, its paid Meta advertising consultant and from members of a newly formed lodgers’ association.
Lodgers’ association
During the public comment section of the meeting, Kelly Spence spoke, explaining she is part of the newly formed Pagosa Lodgers Association (PLA), and the purpose of the group is to “advocate … for the effective use of lodgers’ tax to fund visitor marketing and advertising outside of Archuleta County and Pagosa Springs.”
Spence added that the PLA would “just like to kind of have like a little say in what’s going on with the tax dollars that are being taken from the lodgers’ taxes,” noting the association’s goal is to directly support the mission of the tourism board, which is “to raise awareness of Pagosa Springs as a vacation destination and improve visitors experiences.”
Spence also explained the PLA is advocating for “strategic, data-informed advertising,” and promoting initiatives that will attract visitors year-round to help strengthen the tourism industry “and generate shared prosperity for the residents of Pagosa Springs.”
“We’d like to have more of a voice of what’s being done with our tax dollars,” she added, noting that the PLA’s goals “are pretty much as everybody else’s,” with putting more heads in beds and providing better experiences for visitors.
Spence noted that the PLA currently has 13 members, and tourism board chair Shane Lucero asked if a list of the PLA’s members could be provided.
“I don’t know how we feel about ... We’ve talked about just having a number provided for you guys,” Spence answered, noting the association is made up of representatives of hotels, motels, resorts and other small entities.
Market trends
In December 2024, the Pagosa Springs Town Council approved a sole-source contract for the amount of $35,000 with Blue Room Research for the purpose of conducting market research for the tourism board.
According to agenda documentation, Blue Room provides data analysis of the effectiveness of destinations, evaluating tax revenues, trends and marketing campaigns.
During the July 2 meeting, Blue Room’s Steve Halasz presented its most recent report, explaining the document is intended to be a “living, breathing document” and that Blue Room is open to including other information the board may want to see.
Halasz mentioned the only caveat with providing additional data is that it is available and free, noting that Visit Pagosa Springs “doesn’t really have any more budget for data.”
He also mentioned that they do not have any hotel data, as the hoteliers in the community do not report it.
“If we could get them to do that, that would be fantastic,” he added.
Halasz explained that because the budget is limited, all the data he used is free, noting that other destinations have more resources to purchase things like credit card and hotel data.
He went on to explain that the report was designed to be a “30,000-foot overview” with considerations about the nation’s economy as a whole and how that trickles down into the travel industry.
Halasz mentioned that with the volatility of the stock market lately, travelers may be holding off on taking on major purchases “like vacation.”
He also explained that, “across the state of Colorado, we’re seeing booking windows shrink dramatically.”
Halasz noted that AirDNA, which pulls short-term rental (STR) data from Airbnb and VRBO, along with other hotel forecasters, has revised its projections down for the fourth quarter in a row.
He noted that, using this data as a proxy to all travel patterns, “booking windows are dropping.”
“Again, unfortunately, we don’t have that for Pagosa Springs, so it’s impossible to tell if that’s actually happening or not, but I would bet my life it is,” Halasz said, noting that is happening in every other client he has in Colorado.
He went on to talk about lodging tax collections, explaining that it is one of the “hardest data sources” available for Visit Pagosa Springs.
“I’ve already mentioned, we don’t have lodging data, which is arguably the best, so we rely on tax collections as the next best thing,” he said.
Halasz explained that lodging tax collections in the community have been increasing “since 2015, consistently” with a slight dip in 2022 and 2023, “and then back up in 2024.”
He noted that lodging tax collections have a “lag” in reporting, and that it is not necessarily an apples-to-apples comparison, noting that visitors may be staying one month, but the tax collection is not reported until the following month.
“Again, this would be a huge get for the town if we could get the hotels to report lodging data and aggregate so we can look at what’s going on on a more granular basis,” Halasz said.
He then went on to review sales tax collections, explaining that certain indicators are more prevalent in tourism, such as dining.
Halasz explained that sales tax collections in the community have increased since 2016 with a “small wrinkle” in 2023, similar to lodging tax collections.
He then explained that Blue Room was able to provide STR data through a complimentary subscription to AirDNA, which indicated that STR occupancy in the greater Pagosa Springs area was down .4 percent in May, and the average daily rate (ADR) was up 7 percent, while revenue per room was up 6 percent.
Total revenue was up 18 percent, Halasz added, noting that shows a “really, really strong lodging performance.”
Halasz commented that ADR “has been really far above 2024,” and that 2025 has “outperformed almost every single month of the year,” as well as revenue per available room “beating out last year’s results every single month.”
He also mentioned that total revenue collection has been “up every single month.”
“So, with everything I’m looking at with our hardest data sets, if you will, I’m seeing nothing but good performance out of Visit Pagosa Springs right now,” he said.
Board member Rosanna Dufour asked for a recommendation on what would be the most valuable data the board could get if it had funds to go out and purchase something.
Halasz recommended hotel data, but explained that while it may cost money to get hotel data, hoteliers also have to be willing to provide it.
“That’s the issue,” he said, noting his conversations with Tourism Director Jennifer Green.
He commented that the “lynchpin in a lot of these conversations is it costs money to buy this data, but part two to that is hotels have to participate.”
Halasz explained that he is not in the community, but, based on information relayed to him, “a lot of the hotels in Pagosa aren’t willing to report data and/or pay for it.”
“And I understand why a lot of them probably don’t,” he added, noting he was not suggesting that hoteliers should or should not share their data.
Halasz indicated that the cost of getting that data would be roughly $20,000 per year, depending on what services the board would want to have included.
Dufour asked again about recommended data, noting the PLA just recently formed.
Halasz then recommended that Visa credit card data “of some sort” would be a “really,really nice add,” noting that it would likely cost anywhere from $10,000 to $15,000 annually.
Audience member Jesse Hensle then asked if the public could ask questions related to the data being presented by Halasz.
Dufour and Archuleta County Commissioner/tourism board member John Ranson both indicated they wanted to hear Hensle’s questions.
Hensle commented on proxy and free data that Halasz referenced, mentioning he is concerned with occupancy reports, claiming they provide no foresight to make a move fast enough with a marketing campaign.
He also asked what else could be used to address booking windows in a more forward-looking manner.
Halasz commented that things like Google search inquiries could be used, but, “again, without having some sort of anchor as hotel data to show where it shows up, it’s very challenging.”
He added, “We don’t have any other indicators.”
He mentioned that a more granular level of “booking holes” is needed, and that more specifics are needed other than just being “down this month.”
Hensle commented that the “pushback”on that is that if lodgers understand their booking windows, noting that The Springs Resort has a six-week booking window right now, then search trends year over year could help predict occupancy levels.
Hensle commented that, as lodgers, the PLA could provide booking windows and triangulate information without having incur more costs.
Halasz expressed concern with being able to practically run targeted campaigns if the data doesn’t provide a clear hole.
Hensle explained that one issue with pace reports for The Springs Resort is that most of its business also comes through people soaking in the hot springs, outside of its hotel guests.
Halasz commented that he doesn’t see a “feasible way” to aggregate data for that.
Hensle commented that the lodgers as a cohort are able to discuss lagging and leading indicators.
Lucero interjected, commenting that he didn’t want to cut Hensle off, but for the sake of time wanted to move on.
“These are important questions, though,” Hensle replied, noting he had questions related to the report from Blue Room and that other people might want to hear them.
Lucero suggested setting a future time for the PLA to meet with Blue Room.
Hensle requested to ask two more questions, noting that in reading the tourism board’s minutes, “the other purpose when reviewing the minutes of hiring Blue Room was to understand the effectiveness of tourism’s efforts.”
He asked if there were any comparables available, noting the report shows growth, “but I don’t see how we’re growing versus other people in the industry.”
Hensle’s question was met with a comment from a board member noting that the same question had been asked multiple times.
“I’m going back to why we hired this company,” Hensle said.
Halasz explained that if there are other publicly available comparisons from other cities, in theory Blue Room could pull that data.
“We could do that for sales tax and lodging tax collections,” he said, noting, “I don’t think it’d be a very fruitful exercise or good use of time, just because every town is different.”
Hensle claimed that he had read all of the tourism board’s meeting minutes going back to October 2024 and that’s where his questions were coming from.
Ranson then commented he had a question for the lodgers, with Lucero explaining the PLA was a different agenda item and asking if the board had any other questions specifically for Halasz.
“I was unaware we had agenda time,” Hensle commented.
Meta advertising
The board then heard an update from David Fluegge, who was hired to perform paid Meta advertising for Visit Pagosa Springs.
Green explained that the advertising began in April, targeting different audiences for different events.
Fluegge explained that he worked with the Colorado Tourism Office on the “Leave No Trace” campaign, noting the goal is to increase visitors but also to educate travelers to make sure they are responsible when visiting the area.
Fluegge noted that, since April, Visit Pagosa Springs has had an engagement rate above 5 percent on its paid ads, describing that as “phenomenal.”
In response to a question from the board about what can be done to fill in last-minute bookings, Fluegge explained there is no plan because the “holes” are not known yet.
Pagosa Springs Town Council member/tourism board member Gary Williams asked if it “really matters,” commenting that Fluegge can’t change the trend, suggesting the board is “beating the same drum.”
Tourism board member Shane Prince commented that lodgers want to use data from previous years to develop seasonal marketing campaigns, asking if the trend lines provided form that is enough to pivot a marketing campaign.
Fluegge indicated that the more data, “the better,” explaining that the “beauty of social” is being able to sample markets before committing significant funds to a certain campaign.
Tourism board member Sarah Mashue, who sits on the board as the lodging member, explained that, as the PLA collaborates, a six- to eight-week booking window is being seen.
“We are experiencing a 25 to 27 percent decline in bookings over of last year,” she said, asking how promotions can be activated to fill a hole “that we currently know is within this six- to eight-week window.”
Green explained that efforts with paid Meta advertising will continue throughout the summer, noting that ads will run through August and winter advertisements will begin to run in late August.
Green also noted that the tourism board has not put any money into paid ads since the COVID-19 pandemic, “so this is a shift for this summer.”
Prince then asked Mashue if she was saying that all properties are down 25 percent, to which she responded, “Like looking forward … down that much, yes.”
Prince then asked if occupancy is up overall on the year, with Mashue replying, “Collectively, no.”
“I’m not seeing that trend myself,” Prince replied, noting that he agrees there is a shorter booking window, but with sales tax collections, “I’m trying to understand what that data is.”
Ranson commented that the April sales tax collections sound good, “but all of the increase was in concrete, and two projects.”
Green explained that the report from the state classifies accommodation and food services as a line item in sales tax reports, which includes lodging, “and for April what I saw in the sales tax — that was up 5 percent over last year.”
Green noted that figure does not include the concrete purchases that Ranson referenced.
Lodgers’ association
The meeting then moved onto the agenda item to have a discussion with the PLA, with Ranson commenting that based on what he’s seen and heard, “there’s not the greatest relationship between the lodgers and the tourism up until this point.”
He explained that he was asking if that is the case because “I think these two groups … may be the most important relationship our community will see, if we can work together.”
Ranson then asked if the PLA had some sort of revenue stream and if that would be helpful to work together and get data.
Lucero commented that the tourism board has offered to pick up that tab “for years.”
Ranson replied that he was asking for “more than that,” which was met with confusion from board members and PLA members.
Mashue then shared a handout with the board that listed reasons as to why members of the PLA do not want to participate in the data reporting.
According to the handout, reasons why lodgers do not want to participate include time and resource constraints, lack of reciprocal value, and reporting complexity and inconsistency.
Hensle commented that the PLA could provide data to Blue Room and have them report back to the tourism board, saving everybody money.
“It’s not about the funding to provide the data,” Hensle said, asking what purpose or benefit it would provide for the lodgers and noting there is “a large contingency that would prefer to not share their data.”
Ranson commented that he understands why lodgers may not want to share their data, and that he is looking for a solution to benefit lodgers and the tourism board.
Dufour commented that with lodgers forming the association it gives “a lot of validity to you having a seat at the table in these discussions,” noting this is a step in the right direction in “repairing this relationship.”
Williams also mentioned that the lodgers becoming an organized association is positive and “good for everybody.”
He also commented that occupancy data seems to be the “dependent variable” in the equation, “and we don’t have that variable,” so substitutes and proxies are used, “which aren’t very good.”
Ranson also expressed support for the PLA, commenting, “I’m very supportive of you all.”
Prince then addressed the comments made about May bookings being down 22 to 25 percent compared to last year, “but the lodging tax report and sales tax shows otherwise,” asking why that is, and if it is because people are booking shorter trips.
Prince also asked if booking figures transfer to overall occupancy rates, with Mashue confirming it does.
“So, how would tax be up if you’re down?” Prince asked.
Mashue explained that lodgers are down in occupancy, but ADRs are up, and that inventory has changed within the community with lodging options.
Hensle referenced inflation and that tax collections “aren’t exactly clear.”
He explained that using tax collections as a success measurement “is a lagging indicator, and it’s not clear.”
He added that April was up, “but it wasn’t up a lot,” commenting that he was unsure of the “root” of Prince’s question.
Prince explained that he was going back to how tax collections are up but lodgers are down 25 percent, even though there is five years worth of tax data showing increases over time.
“Business is down 25 percent,” Hensle said, with Prince commenting that he was still unsure about what Hensle was saying.
Tourism board member Austin Marchand, who runs a hot air balloon company, commented that he is “up about 20 percent from last year” with his business’ bookings.
Tourism board member Lance Thornton, who is the STR representative on the board, indicated that STRs are up 22 percent over the last year with bookings, and that ADRs and occupancy are going up.
Williams commented that there is a problem going forward with using lodging tax data, given The Springs Resort recently added 78 rooms, claiming that throws off the metric “completely” for the future.
Williams added, “So, we need the occupancy data” or some other proxy.
Prince commented that whatever data lodgers can share would be useful and that by simply saying that they’re down is not enough.
“We’re gonna need a little bit more data if that’s gonna be useful,” Prince said.
Lucero requested that the PLA share “action items” with the board, and that it can’t be reacting so much to “every little trend.”
Prince commented that the tourism board is marketing Pagosa Springs as a destination and that he feels like it is now “catering just to lodgers.”
Prince commented that there are other businesses besides lodgers and the tourism board’s sole purpose “is to bring visitors to the area as opposed to individual entities.”
He added, “We are not a private advertising board.”
Dufour agreed with Prince’s comments, but suggested there is value in the PLA and its relationship with the tourism board “is very important” based on funding that the tourism board receives from lodging taxes.
“What we can do as a board to support this relationship and getting information to market the destination as a whole is important, too,” she added.
“As a whole, yes,” Prince replied.
Mashue clarified, “That is the goal,” and that there was never an intention for private marketing.
Ranson encouraged the tourism board to allot a certain amount of time for the PLA to participate in the tourism board’s meetings.
“This industry is so important to our community,” Ranson added.
“They have a seat on the board, John,” Lucero replied, with Ranson stating, “That’s just one.”
Lucero explained that the PLA could have as many members as it wants to show up and give public comment, noting there is no three-minute limit for public comment.
Williams asked Ranson if he was suggesting having more board members added to the tourism board.
“No,” Ranson replied, explaining that his suggestion is to include the PLA on however many agendas necessary in order to work out these issues.
Mashue suggested that the PLA could give reports to the board.
Williams then commented that he had a “political item” to discuss, explaining that the town and county participate very well in the joint tourism advisory board, noting that it is a citizen advisory board.
“We’re advisors,” he said, explaining that Green works for the town, not the tourism board.
clayton@pagosasun.com
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